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Post by Graylion on Oct 8, 2016 23:54:39 GMT
Meteor is undisputed IRIS-T is probably the best solution for WVRAAM
JSM, SCALP, Brimstone, II, III, ?
We are sorely missing an ARM. I liked the Armiger project, shame it came to nothing.
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Post by zen9 on Oct 9, 2016 19:29:18 GMT
So while we can agree in Meteor for BVR-AAM/MRAAM the question over whether to opt for IRS-T or ASRAAM or MICA seems less clear..... Unless we take the opportunity to bring about a new common solution or accept a diversity of WVR-AAM/SRAAM systems.
Considering we may have agreement on CAMM/Ceptor for common LAADS missile to succeed the likes of Rapier and others, then choosing a non-CAMM based solution for the airforce is open to question. But it is possible that a CAMM derived system could be produced, no so much ASRAAM as it's successor. The beauty of CAMM is it's compactness and ability to be carried internally on the likes of the F35.
I keep thinking there is scope for a CAMM-SR (short range) to compliment CAMM and CAMM-ER.
This brings me back to ASRAAM's dad...SRAAM, which was very compact but principally lacked a modern imaging IR seeker.
It also reminds me of VSRAAM, an offering from then BAe which I think began life as FLAME, a hit-to-kill missile even smaller than SRAAM (by virtue of less diameter) from the 1980's. This was also offered as air-to-ground weapon, relying of the energy of impact to do the job, rather than a warhead. VSRAAM was pitched as a self defence weapon for large aircraft.
Curiously I think such a weapon has even more merit now, when we want to limit collateral damage and somewhat vindicated by US efforts on M-HTKI. ------ In the realm of SEAD and DEAD, I really do feel the RAF ceasing to use ALARM and further funding the development of the weapon is very questionable. This gave a decent mixture of speedy ARM, and added the ability to 'loiter' for a short period on parachute. I know there was/are efforts for MALD type systems to provide a loitering ARM capability. But I also wonder if we cannot just modify Meteor for the fast ARM capability? ------------
Brimstone and the mkII has proven very potent and flexible in operational use. I'd certainly back this, as once you've got something you can fire from a Mach 2 fighter, it certainly can used by helicopters or even ground based vehicles. SPEAR III, which mates the Brimstone seeker system to a jet powered mini-ALCM is just too good an opportunity to give up on IMO. I'd rate these above SDB based solutions, for use from air, land and sea.
SCALP/Brimstone. Choosing this, chooses a proven system, but it does mean giving up on German efforts, is that politically viable in the EU? That said Apache is closely related to the SCALP, the mission planning system has proven very popular and SCALP-N is the only EU answer to TLAM.
What is definately missing is a HVM, though this is more a matter for the Army, such a weapon guarentee's a kill of any tank no matter the armour, and the speed helps obviate the Line-of-Sight type guidance systems (beam riders and SAL types) that have been used for such previously.
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Post by Graylion on Oct 10, 2016 9:49:04 GMT
If we use Scalp and IRI-T, Germany and france get a win each. Mica is incredibly expensive, it costs nearly as much as Meteor. CAMM/ASRAAM sadly has no traction as regards air to air, I see how it would be elegant.
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Post by Graylion on Oct 15, 2016 20:41:16 GMT
I'd like to propose a 3rd AAM:
We have IRIS-T, infrared and WVR and Meteor, radar and BVR. I think an intermediate range missile, that can be used for self defence of bombers, or in bad weather and closer defence, but is radar controlled might come in very handy.
CAMM-RF has ~50 km range and costs a fraction of Meteor. Stick them into a bomb bay, or hang 10 on a Gripen.
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Post by zen9 on Oct 17, 2016 11:18:25 GMT
I agree CAMM/Ceptor seems ideal for launch from inside a weapons bay, it's ability to swing itself around and under link guidance obviates the need to 'point' the aircraft or potentially even the need for HMS when coupled with a 360 EO/IR sensor suite. Ideal for a bomber's defensive missile, as it is potentially for the F35.
IRS-T needs folding wings for internal carridge.
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Post by Graylion on Oct 17, 2016 19:32:07 GMT
Not only that, the RF version gives 50 km actual range vs "hypothetically on a good day" with IR. And Iris-T only has 25 anyway.
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Post by zen9 on Nov 2, 2016 22:50:20 GMT
Then lets go that further and propose CAMM-SR....Short Range.
Utilising CAMM technologies and aimed at a 1.8m length using the same diameter. Ideally for a 25nm range, high body-lift, TVC and datalink for lock-on-after-launch under datalink guidance. Obviates the need for aircraft agility and coupled with EO/IR 360 sensor suite or HMS can ultimately repalce IRS-T, Sidewinder and Magic type short ranged missiles. Avaiable in IR or EM variants and ideally a dual sensor configuration. Permits VLS carriage using 'soft launch' inside the dimentions of a ISO standard container. Potentially permits mobile system inside the dimensions of a armoured vehicle. And of course would permit carriage inside weapons bays on even a Grippen replacement. Fusilage might also inform a anti-radar option and a anti-armour option.
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Post by zen9 on Dec 12, 2016 12:46:29 GMT
Lets also ponder...
1. ultra long range AAM, aiming to takedown AEW, tankers etc.... This would need very long range indeed, in excess of 400nm. But it would force the defence of such assets and provide virtual attirtion of the enemies airpower.
2. Having funded SPEAR III, we ought to ponder differing packages for ECM, or anti-drone using this airframe.
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